POINT/COUNTERPOINT: We draft the Best Minnesota Rec Team

This week, POINT/COUNTERPOINT welcomes special guest Joe Neuenfeldt...

Joe: So, Erik Bohn contacts me and tells me that any legacy I ever had as an Ultimate Hoops blogger in Minnesota is about to be outdone by this thing that he and Briggs are going to start doing every week where they take opposing sides to a specific topic. After attempting to explain the definition of “legacy” to Erik and that I never really had one, I tell him I think it’s an awesome idea since Minnesota Rec is really where the heart and soul of Ultimate Hoops is (and always will be) and that Briggs can probably argue any side of any topic with any person, place or thing. Now, what does this have to do with me?

Bohn: We have an idea to include you and do a mock draft of all the players in Minnesota Rec…..

Joe: In!

Bohn: Don’t you want to hear the rest?

Joe: Can’t wait.

Bohn: A mock draft of all of the players in Minnesota Rec to see which of the three of us can put together the best team.

Joe: You mean like a fantasy basketball draft with Ultimate Hoops guys like what Shelby, MI is doing?

Bohn: No. A draft to put together the best eight man squad out of all of the players in Minnesota Rec.

Joe: You mean like what a GM trying to compete for Gold Cups would do? With star players as well as role players that mesh together to form a true team?

Bohn: You got it.

Joe: So, kind of like what I’ve done with the Rebels?

Bohn: Big surprise that you couldn’t go 30 seconds without talking about the Rebels. But yes, like that. Except you get to choose from everyone in Minnesota Rec. Not just from the Nuggets, Blazers and Purple Cobras.

Joe: And I’m going up against you and Briggs?

Bohn: Yes.

Joe: In. This is going to be a cake walk.


Without further adieu, Bohn, Briggs and Neuenfeldt present the inaugural Ultimate Hoops Minnesota Rec Draft.

Bohn received the first pick in the draft, Neuenfeldt second and Briggs third. The draft was done in a snake format and listed below are the pick by pick results and analysis.

Who got picked too early? Too late? Who got snubbed? And most importantly, which team (8 Samurai- Bohn, Rebels + - Neuenfeldt, or Wu-Tang Warriors - Briggs) is the one that would win it all?

THE MN REC DRAFT

Bohn: Dustin Dupont

I was almost disappointed I ended up with the first pick, mainly because I feel I may now have the beginnings of an ulcer due to the amount of time I spent thinking about who to take. I made compelling arguments (talking out loud to myself) for five different players – Dupont, J Samuelson, Byrne, Jansen, and Marshall. I knew whoever I passed on wouldn’t be available for my next pick, and in the end, I had to go with the best point guard in Rec basketball.

In the time I’ve spent playing against and watching Dupont, I honestly don’t know if I’ve ever seen him get tired, which is amazing considering he is one of the top two on-ball defenders along with Jansen. Ask any guard who’s played against him what they think of Dupont and I think you’ll get a combination of expletives and begrudging respect. Once the ball is tipped, the opposing team knows they are entering a meat grinder with a Dupont-led team (just ask Robert Sutton and Balln), and I absolutely love that.

I’m not a huge believer in individual stats, and feel that especially in basketball, a player’s impact can often times be misinterpreted by their stat line. In the case of Dupont, I think his stat line for the most recent championship season with the Rebels tells you everything you need to know:

13.9ppg, 6.8apg, 6.5rpg, 3.3spg, 47%fg

Mr. Dupont, you are the first overall pick in the UH MN Rec Draft and the leader of my superteam, “8 Samurai.”

(I’ve been watching a lot of kung-fu and samurai flicks lately, so I’m sticking with that theme in my team name)


Joe: Ryan Jansen

Wow, Bohn. I thought for sure you would have chosen J-Sam or Mike Byrne. Grabbing the best point guard in the league certainly isn’t a bad way to go, though. I guess you’re true to your argument that a PG is most vital to a team’s success. Kind of hoped Dustin would have fallen back to me at #5.

As for my pick, he was my #1 all the way. He’s the best, and more importantly, the most versatile defender in the league. I know very well from watching him first hand that he can shut down a great guard like Marcus Marshall or Neal Anderson, or he can wreak havoc on an athletic 4 man like Chris Maher or Joe Suek. Offensively, he is very smart, is great at getting to the hoop and can hit the three ball (when his coach is around). More than that, he’s just as versatile on offense as he is defense. He can play any position 1-4, including point guard. Hopefully he won’t have to shoot too many free throws. But I’ve even seen him hit some clutch ones of those as well.

Perhaps the most important factor in selecting him is that he’s a winner. He has 6 titles this calendar year alone (3 with Abe Froman, 2 with Rebels, and 1 with Saints +). He can also play every minute, guard anyone you ask him to, and the only thing that ever bothers him is when someone gives up an open look or his team allows more than 50 points. He also doesn’t like it when his team wins by 15 when they could have won by 30. Who doesn’t want that guy on his team?



Briggs: Justin Samuelson
Briggs: Mike Byrne

Before the draft started, I was really confident I was getting Ryan Jansen and ??? after drawing the #3 pick.  I figured Bohn would draft either Byrne or J-Sam and that Joe would jump all over the other, leaving me with Jansen and a very tough decision at #4.  After Erik took Dustin #1, I knew that Joe couldn’t risk waiting on Jansen for pick #5, so I got my dream scenario.  Thank you gentlemen, picking these two players was simply the easiest thing I’ve done in a long time.

If you looked at my pre-draft rankings, Justin was #1 with a bullet and Byrne was holding down the two spot.  Part of those rankings are based on the fact that those are the two players in rec basketball that I hate guarding the most, and I know there are several people out there that feel the same way.  I fall for Justin’s pump fake every time and Mike’s endless motor around picks wears me out after about 3 possessions.

I also like both of them for their versatility.  They can play multiple positions, rebound, defend, and are unselfish.  Not to mention, how is anyone going to have the size and speed to guard this combination?



Joe: Marcus Marshall

Slightly surprised, Briggs, that you took both J-Sam and Mike Byrne. I was hoping one would fall to me at 5. Especially when you could argue that they should have been the top two picks.

But, I will gladly settle for the best player in the history of the Rec league. When we’re talking about winners, perhaps no one has won more than Marcus. Multiple MVP’s and Gold Cup MVP’s. And what I like best about him is that he still isn’t satisfied. He wants to win every game. He also wants the ball in his hands with the game on the line. And it’s been said that my Rebels squad is only missing a clutch scorer down the stretch. Well, I don’t have to worry about that here. And when Marcus sees who I selected first, he’ll be happy he’s on the same squad as opposed to being harassed by him for 44 minutes. I just drafted the superstar of the league 5th. You guys are all toast.


Bohn: Chris Maher
Bohn: Andrew Klobe

If these teams were actually playing each other, how happy are Jansen and Marshall they’re on the same team? The best individual scorer in UH teamed with the best individual defender – not bad Mr. Neuenfeldt.

Here’s where I get the chance to not only add size, but also extreme versatility. Maher has proven he’s one of the most difficult match-ups in UH because of his ability to be deadly both inside and on the perimeter (50%FG, 40%3PT, 80%FT). He’s unselfish, rebounds well, and doesn’t turn the ball over. In the words of Bill Simmons, he brings a ton to the table and takes nothing off it.

It was between Klobe and Ferber with the next pick, and as much as I would love to have Ferber on my team, I was going Klobe all the way. I don’t feel it’s hyperbole to say Klobe is perhaps the most unique player in the UH Rec division. He has incredible size at 6’5” 235lb, which makes him a nightmare match-up for almost any opponent on both ends of the floor (if Klobe doesn’t get knocked out against the Celtics in the Summer 2011 semifinal, St. Baul is playing for the championship), but what makes him unique is how versatile he is. I don’t know if Klobe took dance lessons as a youngster, but his footwork is phenomenal and he somehow has the ability to look light on his feet, which may or may not be an optical illusion. I think he compares well to Zach Randolph – except Klobe plays better defense – in that he has size, a nice low-post game, great touch around the hoop, and nice little mid-range J.

Maher looks like he just came from the GQ headquarters and Klobe always appears to have just rolled in from a tough day on the logging trail, but together, these guys will combine to be the best big man tandem in this draft.


Joe: Paul Ferber

Bohn picking Klobe made my decision easy. Otherwise I would have had a tough time.

But I still think I would have gone with Ferber. I admit I am a little biased. And there are some people in the league who don’t like the guy. But I have never been one of them. He’s as fierce a competitor as anyone. And it doesn’t matter if his team is winning by 50. He does not want you to score on him, ever. He’s passionate. He’s a great team leader (Captain of the Rebels). And I know he can match up with any of the other big men in the league. He’s also very underrated offensively. His biggest contribution in his Gold Cup MVP performance against the Celtics came on the offensive glass. He had at least three easy putbacks just by crashing. He may not out-talent you basketball wise. But he will definitely outwork you.


Briggs: Garland Sanchez
Briggs: Ryan Samuelson

Joe picking Marcus and Erik picking Maher and Klobe make perfect sense to me, but Joe picking Paul Ferber #8 just doesn’t add up.  Not because Paul isn’t a great player, he certainly is one of the best defenders in the league.  The reason it was surprising was that since Klobe, Byrne, and J-Sam were already drafted, I felt he could have waited on picking a center.  I just didn’t see Erik and I taking him after we’ve already stocked our team with size.

As for choosing Garland Sanchez after already having Mike Byrne and Justin Samuelson on the roster, the reasons are quite plentiful.  First of all, taking the only other dominant power forward leaves Joe without one.  Second, the guy is really good and seems to be getting better every season.  The Celtics were a mess last season, but it seemed like he was the one reliable option that never wavered.  And lastly, how can anyone match up with my front court?  They all play team ball, can post up, and also hit the outside jumper.  I’ve also seen Garland shut down some pretty quality shooting guards like Roderick Powell, which shows me he will have no problem with any small forward or power forward I’ll match him up against.

As for picking Ryan Samuelson, I debated this pick in my head for quite awhile.  The three guys up for this spot were Ryan, Noe Mendez, and Justin Montzka.  I took Justin off the board because there was still a glut of shooting guards left in the green room.  When it came down to Ryan or Noe, I just couldn’t ignore the brotherly connection.  How can you not love the chemistry that has been built up after years of playing on the same team or same driveway?  I also think Ryan fits what I’m doing on offense a little bit better than Noe, since I’m looking for a point guard that can hit the three while also not needing the ball in his hands to be effective.  Ryan also has the ability to play a little shooting guard, because his range from downtown is deadly.


Joe: Justin Montzka

J-Sam, Byrne and Garland??? Guess Briggs doesn’t need any more big men. Plus, I see Byrne not taking a lot of shots, which certainly isn’t something I would want if I drafted him. But I would have no idea how to guard all three of them if they were all on the court at once.

With Jansen and Ferber, I needed more of an offensive threat than they are, yet someone who will shoot less than Marcus and allow him to do what he does. But I also wanted a defender (of course). So how could I go wrong with someone who’s very good offensively and defensively along with having great chemistry with for sure two of the guys and his coach? Also, Montzka is very well respected by all players in the league (as he should be) and he’s won 1 Gold Cup MVP (with the Turtles) and could have made a case for Gold Cup MVP in both of the Rebels’ titles. But being the guy that he is, he doesn’t care about that. He just wants to win.


Bohn: Sam Halverson
Bohn: Justin Martin

I love that the brothers Samuelson ended up on the same team – apparently they are a package deal in real life and in a draft! Joe picked Rebels with 3 of his first 4 picks, which actually doesn’t seem like much of a reach. One strategy I thought about employing going into this was just drafting the entire 8 man roster of the Rebels, but I didn’t want Joe to get pissed and do something drastic like cut his hair.

Big Sammy Halverson is my first “homer” pick of the draft, and I couldn’t be happier. I’ve played with Sam on two different Open division teams and he’s an original Blue Chips member, so I’ve been able to witness firsthand how dominant he can be. He has NBA range on his jumper and has a knack for hitting back-breaking 3’s, but he feels just as comfortable banging on the boards down low (and he has the size to do it). While Sam is usually the best scorer on whatever team he’s playing on, he’s also shown the ability to co-exist with other great players and get people involved – look no further than his play at the Chicago Open. I just got a perennial MVP-candidate and one of the best offensive players in UH with the 12th pick – I’ll take it.

Some people might view taking Martin in this spot as a reach, but he’s one of my favorite players to watch in UH. It’s incredibly cliché to pull out the “underrated” card in sports debates, but I absolutely think Martin is the most underrated player in the league (he’s been playing since 2007, yet you rarely hear him talked about). Going into the draft he was absolutely someone I was targeting, because he is the perfect team player. Martin is very talented offensively as a shooter (50%FG, 39%3PT, 80%FT in his last 4 seasons), off the dribble, and as a shot creator for teammates (4.0apg career average), but more importantly he never forces anything and always makes high percentage plays. When you hear people talk about players with a “high basketball IQ,” Martin was the prototype they had in mind when they coined that phrase.


Joe: Sean Ball

I like the Halverson pick. He really impressed me with his play in Chicago. And I already knew he was a great guy and teammate before that. And I like Justin Martin also. But I didn’t even have him on my board.

Yes, I am taking a T-Pup. And no, I’m not real proud of it. But I am very happy with the pick. Most of you see Sean on a T-Pups team every week where he doesn’t get enough shots and has to do a lot of sacrificing for the several egos on that team. And he does it all without complaining. I see Sean as a stud player in Open with the three time defending champs in Abe Froman. And everything he does on that squad is for the good of the team. Sometimes he puts up big numbers. Sometimes he doesn’t. Either way, they always win. And that’s all that matters to him. And who doesn’t want a 6’4” guy that can get to the hoop, is versatile enough to play a 3, and has big game experience as well as experience playing on a team with three of the four other players as well as playing on a team with his coach?


Briggs: Joe Epple
Briggs: Derek Batiste

Damn you Bohn, you sniped me on Justin Martin!  I’ve been a big fan of his for awhile now and I had that shooting guard spot filled in with his name already.  I also like the Ball pick Joe, since he is extremely underrated.  I thought I might get him a little later in the draft, but apparently we all have the same “sleepers.”

After I took Ryan Samuelson, Epple was my next target.  Even if he won’t admit it, he’s still an absolute stud if he’s used the right way.  I like the thought of Ryan coming around picks as the two and Epple running the offense and playing the role of distributor.  He was so dominant in the Bobcat days before they added all the point guards, it was a shame to see him relegated to posting up or running the baseline for his last few teams.  Sure he can do those things, but that’s not what he was doing when he was MVP.  Welcome Joe, the keys to this kick-ass offense are yours!!

As for Derek, I needed a shooter and he might be the best one.  He also is a guy that clearly continues to work on his game, since his mid-range skills and defense both continue to get better every season.  He’s also a player that can absolutely destroy a teams’ morale, because if he’s on from deep the other team might as well just walk off the court.  Add to that the fact that he can probably hook us up with some sweet jerseys, and I’m pretty happy about getting him in round #6.


Joe: Pat Magnuson

Love the Avengers much, Briggs? I likely would have taken Epple here if you hadn’t. He’d have been a great fit for Rebels +. And Batiste would have been hard to pass up also. Not sure about how he would have meshed with my other guys, though.

I will gladly waste no time picking my 4th Rebel. There is certainly no doubt with how he will get along with the rest of the guys (including me). He also is one of the most explosive and dangerous offensive players in the league. Pat is what I call the ultimate x-factor. There are times when he will be very quiet and go unnoticed. But he can also completely change and win a game for your squad. Just ask the Saints + team (and the guy he dunked on) how over that game was after he threw down left handed and was fouled. He’s the guy that blocked Mark Buettner so badly in the Winter Final Four game that Buettner grabbed his ankle afterwards just to stop him from running up the floor. He is also underrated defensively. When Garland Sanchez scored a few times in a row against us in the Gold Cup, we threw Pat on him just to mix it up. And his length and athleticism did a very effective job. He’s going to get loose for a couple breakaway dunks on this squad. And when he does, game over.


Bohn: Keilon Riddley
Bohn: Alex Skaja

Joe keeps stockpiling Rebels on his squad and Briggs can’t help himself when it comes to big men and keeps adding size, what’s new? With that being said, I do like the picks for both teams, especially the Magnuson pick.

I guess I’ll keep bailing out Joe and not let him be the only homer as I’m picking up my second Blue Chip of the draft in Keilon Riddley. I was surprised he was still available at this point and simply couldn’t pass him up. He’s a top tier athlete and one of the best slashers in UH, and shows it on a nightly basis. He also gets to the free throw line at a high rate (5.7 FTA career average) and converts at an 81% clip. Everyone knows this guy can score, but what always impresses me most is how much effort he puts into rebounding. In his career he is averaging just over nine total rebounds per game, and four offensive rebounds per game. I know Neuenfeldt once claimed Luke Sontowski was the best pound-for-pound offensive rebounder in the game, but Riddley is far and away my favorite for that title (he’s listed at 6’2”, but that is a very generous number).

I deliberated between Skaja and Don Kahl for my next pick, but ultimately had to go with the Celtics big man. As far as Skaja goes, everybody who has played with or against him knows what he’s about: defense, rebounding, and winning. He’s averaged 10 rebounds and 2 blocks against 2.7 fouls per game for his career and anchored a few Gold Cup champion defenses – I love that. I can now trot out a Twin Towers lineup of Klobe and Skaja with Maher playing small forward.…I’ll take it.


Joe: Nick Roell

Guess I’m not the only homer, Bohn. And I’m glad you took Keilon. Otherwise I may have had to if he fell to me this late and I would have no idea what to do with him.

This was a tough one. It was either Noe or Roell. And to be honest, I am not sure I made the right decision. But the deciding factor for me is that I have seen Noe play with Marcus before (and play very well), but I haven’t seen what Roell can do with a superstar like Marcus. Don’t get me wrong, I still hate the Riddlers and always will. But Roell is a very good floor general. He’s also played on teams with Ball before. And I want to have a guy who is as smart and knows basketball as well as he does. Having him will also allow me to use Jansen as a wing from time to time. And with all of the firepower my team has, he should find himself wide open for 3’s often, which I know he can hit almost as well as anyone.


Briggs: James Pinkett
Briggs: Joe Thomas

Wow Bohn, you know the best the Blue Chips have ever done is 4-4 right?  Oh well, guess I can’t fault you for taking an offensive force like Keilon off the board.  As for Skaja, I’m hoping my beefy front court had something to do with that selection.  Playing him and Klobe together might be the only way to temporarily slow down my team.  Nick Roell vs Noe, I think that question was asked pretty recently on the UH Minnesota facebook page.  Guess we found out your answer Joe and I couldn’t really fault you for choosing either one.  And to answer your question, yes I like the Avengers.  I hear Derek has been saving a jersey for me for quite some time, but is waiting until Winter 2012 before he makes me Mr. Marvel.

That leaves me with two tough decisions, because there are clearly a lot of talented players left on the board.  Unfortunately, I’m not looking for scoring punch at this stage of the draft and want some quality team players that can wear multiple hats.  That leaves Buettner, Clark and Martancik on the outside looking in, while also meaning I don’t have room for Noe on this roster.  The fact that he is still around is unbelievably surprising, but I just don’t like him and Ryan Samuelson on the floor together.  Maybe they agree, since they are now in separate backcourts in Fridley.

While there may be some jeers from the peanut gallery, I think James Pinkett and Joe Thomas are the perfect guys for my team.  They both rebound, block shots, and play stellar defense.  James’ passing ability is very underrated, as is his ability to guard bigger players.  Him getting hurt before St Baul played the Celtics in the playoffs last year was a big factor in the outcome of that game, because he would have done a much better job slowing Marcus than anyone else on that roster.  Joe Thomas is giving me another shooter off the bench, while also being a match-up problem because he can fit at so many different positions.  Since the task at hand is building the best team, I’m not interested in simply stacking up superstars and hoping they work out.  Both these guys know their defined roles on the Rebels and St Baul, while doing them to perfection.  Every team needs a few workhorses and glue guys, and I’ve just grabbed mine.  They don’t complain about shots or minutes, they just go out there and bust ass for every minute they are on the court while also playing within a system.

Gentlemen, welcome to the Wu-Tang Warriors!  We’ll have Derek hook us up with some sweet jerseys with our 8 favorite members.  RZA, GZA, Ghostface Killah, Method Man, Inspectah Deck, Raekwon, Masta Killa, and Ol’ Dirty Bastard are all up for grabs...although I think Epple has the seniority to be ODB.

Overall, I couldn’t be happier with my team.  I have an unbelievable frontcourt, a few great shooters, and clearly the best 6th man out there in Joe Epple.  I have the flexibility to go small or add Joe Epple to the lineup of Byrne, J-Sam, and Garland to make my squad unguardable.  I’ve also compiled a roster of unselfish players that will clearly put the team above individual stats, which is not something I can say about the other rosters.  I tried to eliminate the redundancies that render certain rosters ineffective by focusing on versatility and clearly that mission was accomplished.  I also was not interested in grabbing someone that needed to dominate the ball to be effective, which make R-Sam and Epple the perfect players to run my offense.  Not sure about you guys, but I can’t see us getting beat.


Joe: Don Kahl

Did James Pinkett really just get drafted? Don’t get me wrong. I like Pinkett a lot. His hustle and defense especially. But if we played Briggs’ team, I would have one of my five guys double team someone when Pinkett is in the game and playing offense. And Pete Clark is still out there. Wow.

If Joe Thomas hadn’t been drafted, I would have taken him (5th Rebel) here since I believe he is versatile enough defensively to guard a 2, 3 or 4. But since he was gone, I still had to go with a defender. I thought about Clark, who is a solid defender. And it really sucks to pass up offensive weapons like Mark Buettner, Ben Martancik and Roderick Powell. But I just can’t pass up a guy who is regarded by many as the best defender in the league. In fact, Kahl is so good defensively that when I game plan for the Riddlers, I try to take Ferber out of the offensive equation altogether just hoping that Kahl won’t make a lot of good things happen. I realize that Kahl doesn’t do much offensively. But I know he is capable of it. And maybe if I yell at him enough to shoot wide open shots, he’ll actually do so. He is a great teammate to have from what I hear. And probably the most important guy on the Riddlers.

To sum up, I love the team I have. I can’t imagine anyone scoring on us when Jansen, Ball, Kahl and Ferber are all in. And who can stop us with Roell leading the point and dishing to Marcus, with Pat as my slasher and Montzka spotting up for three’s. Pretty sure it’s safe to say that this team would dominate. Lastly, every member of this team has won multiple Gold Cups. Can’t argue with picking guys who are winners.


Bohn: Romaro Nelson

I simply can’t believe that Noe didn’t get drafted by anyone. If I wouldn’t have had Dupont on my roster, rest assured, Noe would have had a home. Martancik, Clark, Buettner, and Powell are all big snubs as well, but Noe not having a team (Briggs, how did you not put him on your roster??) is absolutely crazy.

With the draft finally coming to an end, I couldn’t help but take another guy I’ve played with for two seasons, Romaro Nelson, with my last pick. In my eyes this isn’t much of a stretch however, because I think Ro is a completely underappreciated talent in UH. Every season I hear people talk about how good the Fridley Bulls are and they keep gushing over Powell, Barnes, and Dudinsky (when he was with them), but nobody ever mentions Ro. From my experience playing with and watching him, Nelson is all about winning – whether that means he has to score, get down low and rebound, or D up great opponents, which are all things he’s capable of. Ro is also similar to the Nick Roell’s and Justin Martin’s of the world in that he’s a very smart player that understands what people should be doing on the court, which is a huge asset. With the team I was able to draft, Ro will be a great glue guy I can plug in anywhere and he will make a positive impact.

I love the team I was able to assemble through this draft. I have three great bigs in Klobe, Maher,and Skaja who could all play together if we want to go with size; the best point guard in Dupont and another great small guard who can handle the ball in Martin; and three guard/forward’s who can score and rebound with the best of them in Halverson, Riddley, and Romaro. I’d take the 8 Samurai in a best of five series against anybody.

As far as the other two teams, the Rebels+ can throw out some interesting line-ups, especially on the defensive end, and having Marshall on your team means you always have offensive firepower. Briggsy, while you have some great size on your roster, you have a lack of ball handlers and no true point guard, which I think would be a major problem.

When are we going to get a sponsor to put up a cash prize and have these teams duke it out in real life in a round robin tournament?? Mr. Arlt, get something together!